my rant about judgement from the outside

I wasn’t looking for it, butI ran into this article/blog post today and I have had just about enough of the “you poor women, you all must be crazy” statements that I see here and there.  So I am going to say my piece and be done with it.  Here’s what I read but I’ll copy some snippets for you…

“A Terrifying Hybrid: “Christian Domestic Discipline”

       Then, there’s the incredibly disturbing blog of a woman who uses discipline from her husband to lose weight. Really:

 I didn’t want to face the truth for a while but I finally asked my husband to help me with this.  I asked him to discipline me when I didn’t keep up with my diet.  We sat down and made the rules together.  The consequence of breaking the rules is a discipline session with his belt.  I hate to admit that I have been disciplined more than once for breaking the rules and will probably be again.  I have reached the point that if I break the rules I’ll tell my husband even though I know I’ll get the belt.  This is partly because I think it would be worse if he found out on his own and partly because I know the diet is good for me.

 

 Reading these blogs the angst and self-hate that emerges is really scary. Have they chosen this willingly? Yes,  but in part out of a really twisted view of themselves. That’s the truly terrifying part.

 

    (Ally: *This person’s blog is no longer there. )

 
 
 here are some of the reader comments:
too creepy for comment
By Annika Aug 24th 2007 at 10:26 am EDT
I tried to make some sense of this last night–or even wrap my head around it–but didn’t have any luck. Int he end, I think stuff like this is more about personal problems than the poisoning of Christian principles.

It hurts me that people who supposedly share my faith use it like this, but in this case, I don’t think it says as much about Christianity as about mental stability.

  
Don’t read too much into this
By david01879 Aug 31st 2007 at 10:24 am EDT
This looks like your garden variety porn site to me. It may be targeting Christians who are afraid of real porn, but I doubt that it’s the beginning of another twisted, fundamentalist movement.
  
 
‘CDD’ Is Not Christian
By Robin Nov 7th 2007 at 3:30 am EST
I agree it is very disturbing and creepy, and I’m very concerned that it is a thinly veiled excuse for domestic violence. Whether it’s a thinly veiled excuse for s & m is another story…  

But this is a way out on the fringe group of people who will hopefully forever remain on the outer bizarro religious fringe.

These ideas are not Christian and do not come from the Bible, and in no way represent what I or any true followers of Jesus that I know believe.

 LOVING domestic discipline!
By jskiggs Dec 18th 2007 at 1:46 pm EST (Updated Dec 18th 2007 at 2:04 pm EST)
even more disturbing is a website(lovingdd.blogspot.com) goes into great detail about how to spank a woman, as well as different meanings of different kinds of spankings. If a wife is disobedient, there is a whole story about disobedient spankings, transformational spankings, and on and on.
there is also a punishment book, where the wife writes in about her bad behavior, and then is to blog about the actual punishment.
I joined the yahoo group christian dometic discipline to see what they were saying, one woman gets a spanking everynight before bedtime, and that is what she/they call a maintenance spanking. everynight now for over 6 months since ive been following this, and then on top of that if she misbehaves, she will recieve a punishment spanking IN ADDITION. Its very strange no doubt, Im still in shock!

*The one point I do agree with the writer on is it should always be consensual.  I didn’t copy that part onto this post…

I found it so interesting, Sara’s reader relative question, it made me feel good to see that someone on the outside would come to that level of acceptance of dd relationship practices, even though it’s not something they are interested in.  Note to self: Do not let it give me a false sense of security, should someone in my life find out it would be a HUGE problem.  I feel so immersed in this community/lifestyle at this point, that it’s difficult to look at it from an outsider’s point of view objectively.  It just seems so right for me, it makes me think, why wouldn’t anyone chose it?  (However, I will be tolerant of those who aren’t into spanking, gracious of me, huh? 🙂 )  It irritates me how people get so upset about how others choose to live when it’s none of their business.  I can understand concern on a personal level, like the relative who wrote Sara.  That person is genuinely concerned about a family member.  If he’s happy and she’s happy, ultimately it’s their choice.  In this article they are specifically attacking Christian couples in dd relationships.  This is what I believe, the Bible doesn’t specifically say do it, nor does it specifically say don’t do it.  Other Christians have no right to say what they are doing is wrong or be so judgemental.  It’s up to each individual to decide what is right for them.  They just can’t seem to understand that some women actually want their lives this way.  If they do they have personal problems (don’t we all), self loathing issues, or they are just so abused that they can’t think straight or leave that type of relationship.  I will admit that there are some messed up ways of going about things, not all men or women are practicing dd for all the right reasons, and there are some who would abuse their power (on both sides).  They should not be the poster couple for dd relationships!  (BTW, I am speaking in general, not about the blogs referenced in the article.) You can’t take a few paragraphs from two or three blogs and say dd is creepy, it’s about pornography, we are all mentally twisted, and are suffering domestic violence.  If they opened their eyes they would find a world (mostly) filled with women who love and respect their husbands/partners… and not because they are afraid.  Women who are for the most part very very happy.  They would also find men who genuinely love,  care, and respect their women, men who would do anything for them.  I’m not saying we are living in lollipop land, nothing’s perfect, but I like the way I live and I don’t think it’s creepy.

ok, I think I am done now. 

Oh and the woman who gets spanked every night for maintainence, I bet she loves it!

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8 thoughts on “my rant about judgement from the outside

  1. Sir J says:

    nice rant, well said

  2. Ally says:

    Thank you so much J

  3. Bonnie says:

    Ally,

    I think your points are well taken. I read about certain activities described in blogs and think to myself, “That’s not for me.” And I am quite entitled to that judgment.

    But were I to say instead, “That’s wrong for YOU,” I would be inappropriately judging the author’s choices. I don’t presume to know what’s best for anyone other than me. I offer my opinion when asked, but that’s an entirely different situation.

    So in my view, the question of whether a given couple’s lifestyle is “acceptable” in the eyes of strangers is irrelevant. Assuming they are sane and consenting, it’s their decision alone.

    Thanks for a thought-provoking post.

    Hugs,
    Bonnie

  4. cultivateddiscipline says:

    Hi Ally, Good post, thought provoking. I do find some trends in CDD disturbing, mostly they revolve around the area of consent and non-consent and scripture twisting. But spanking diets? People have used positive and negative reinforcement for their goals for years – why is this so different? And so what if it is sexual? The marriage bed is undefiled, I thank you to see your way out of my bed.

    One thing about Christians, we spend a lot of time trying to ‘out-save’ each other and searching for the beam in someone elses eye. It creates an atmosphere of fear and insecurity, I believe, in many relationships as couples try to get it ‘right’. And the busy-bodies run around telling everyone ‘sex’ you are doing it wrong.

    I have read the comments of many happy wives and unfortunately the comments of unhappy wives as well. But if you substitute spanking for, his sports, his family, his job, there is always going to be that ‘something’ isn’t there?

    There are instances that give me pause, the nightly spanking example. If it is the person I remember, she developed calluses and had sores that did not heal. It was disturbing. She continued because she was the wife and had no choice in the matter under her husbands interpretation of CDD. When choice is removed from CDD it does take on the air of abuse. Unfortunately, if you read Mr LDD’s punishment book you will come away horrified at much of what is written there. It doesn’t sound loving, well-thought out or beneficial.

    So, while I do not agree with the blanket indictment of the writers, and there are lots of writers who actively oppose DD in all forms, I can understand how some of the things they may have read are questionable in their view. Undestand, they are not at all interested in seeing this as anything other than the subjugation of women.

    There is no way you will be able to get them to do so. We have blogs that reference our bare bottoms, paddling and often either sexual intercourse or spanking coupled with the denial of sexual intercourse. Our blogs and sites are loaded with pics of spanking models on one end of the spectrum and naked spankos on the other. Often the discussion drifts into group activities and men who spank women who are not their wives. With or without their wives consent and knowledge. From their point of view, CDD blows the hair straight back with sin and debauchery. I don’t blame them. It isnt and easy conversation to have – trying to explain ttwd and for someone not predisposed to listen or understand, it is appalling.

    Also, Christians have a poor track record when it comes to spousal abuse. It is often coupled with the ideas of submission and obedience. We are really just entering the second generation of women who feel comfortable pointing out a behavior in their spouse and saying, that makes me feel unsafe or that is unsafe.

    We are comfortable in the DD (I dont like the term CDD) world because we have explored it and moved around in it. I could easily name 10 – 15 blogs that are written by Christians, that are not CDD in focus but discuss their relationships. However, make no bones about it, we are discussing a very intimate and personal part of our lives that would not be part of general conversation in any other area of life. Think about it, no one at church just sits down and discusses sex over coffee and cake now do they?

    You are right, the posters you mentioned above do not understand ttwd and chances are they never will. The beauty of this is that we can take advantage of what we know and strengthen our own relationships – unencumbered by those who do not understand.:) CD (just one D please, lol)

  5. Ally says:

    CD, Thank you for your thoughtful response. You gave me a lot to think about. I’ll try to address your comments point by point. I too disagree with a lot of the CDD sites and don’t go to any of them very often, if at all. I really disagree with the consensual nonconsent, at least in the way that I understand it. A woman should be able to revoke her consent at any time in the process, no matter what. If that is not the case, I am not afraid to call it what it is, abuse. However, I have seen couples have rules about revoking consent, and is this appropriate in the middle or before a spanking that they are just trying to avoid. If a sub is being manipulative I think it’s a whole other issue, and there is maybe a problem with commitment on her part, and if I were a man I’d be cautious about someone who is constantly changing their mind. It could be dangerous. I’m sure there are exceptions, maybe one partner is more committed than the other and they are just starting out…..anyway, I couldn’t possibly speak to every situation, it would take all day.
    I do think Christians have the tendency to be judgmental, and I understand that, but if they want to win anyone over, calling them creepy won’t do. As a Christian myself, I understand there is a time and a place and a way for confronting sin. In this case, I don’t believe there is anything wrong with dd in and of itself; I don’t think they have a leg to stand on there. They can be mad about actual abuse, but I don’t want it at my doorstep. As for the wife and the nightly spanking, I don’t know anything about her and her situation, and I feel sorry for her experience. I do understand the concern about that, a misuse of power. It comes back to consent. I have read some of Mr LDD, a limited amount. Some of it I thought was good, and I disagreed with parts of it. I was not really wanting to defend this or that site/couple, as I often see things I disagree with on blogs. I don’t enjoy some of the pictures (that are pornographic in nature) but I can choose not to go there. My point was somewhat more narrow than all the issues put out there. If a couple is happy, both of them, with the whole arrangement, leave them be. Obviously, I did not have to read this article in the same way the “concerned” don’t have to read my blog. I think I was taking it somewhat personally and here is why. While I am comfortable with who I am and my lifestyle for the most part now, I was not in the beginning. It took some time for me not to feel weird about liking spanking, and the dd stuff even more so. So when I see people say it’s creepy, twisted, and I must have mental health issues, well it makes me feel defensive and that is how I reacted. What I love is that in my limited, and I mean limited, experience, I personally have seen what appears to be the strongest, most loving, relationships compared to what I see at home around me. In my sphere of living I see all kinds of disrespect, insults, men/husband or women bashing, and unkind behavior. I’ve been guilty of some of that too. Reading some of these blogs has been a breath of fresh air, I have been impressed, and inspired. And so my view is colored by that. I hope you don’t think I am being defensive here, just wanted to explain. You made very good points and thanks for your voice here!
    Ally

  6. Ally says:

    Bonnie, I feel the same way, if I see some thing I don’t like, I can choose not to go there, right.
    Thanks,
    Ally

  7. cultivateddiscipline says:

    Ally,

    Creepy, lol, I love it. Now I have to find a t-shirt that says I am creepy 😉

    No, I am not talking about the game players. The ones that have to be dragged kicking and screaming up the stairs,,,nah. In that case it is two strikes you are out. And revoking consent in the middle of a spanking? Can you do such a thing? That whole scenario is bad news.

    I know, trust me, I understand. I am comfortable enough in my own skin now but it took a while. And even now, I am single. I date men that I have met on-line but I am leaning towards dating vanilla men. How do I bring this topic up? I never date anyone that I am introduced to by friends — if it doesn’t work out I do not want to be ridiculed if the subject of DD has ever been discussed.

    You know what get’s my goat? Most of my friends and apparently most of my sisters know. When they feel like it, they can visit my blog. It was disconcerting at first to have someone mention a blog post discussion as if we had spoken about it in real life. That took a minute to get used too but I am over it now. But what really bothers me is when someone brings it up around casual acquaintances and they want to discuss it. I am not here for your titillation or entertainment. I hate that, it makes me feel like I am under a magnifying glass. So, trust me, I know, everyone has something that get’s to them.

    You are happy and you want everyone to know that and share in your happiness. You want people to reinforce your joy and celebrate you. Not denigrate you and tear you down. I understand that feeling too. Be celebrated here. Be encouraged and supported here. Be happy within your family – don’t seek validation and acceptance from those who do not understand. Just say. “Hey, they don’t know me and mine” and keep stepping. Be well, CD

  8. Ally says:

    CD,
    I can imaginge dating would be difficult when you are interested in something that isn’t necessarily talked about much. That’s cool that your friends know about your blog, but I can see how that could be a problem too.
    I am very thankful for the friends I have online. I’m able to talk about things here that I could not anywhere else, and share things about myself that I wouldn’t otherwise. It’s a wonderful and supportive community. I am happy 🙂
    Thanks CD!

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